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Author Topic: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)  (Read 1715 times)

papabug

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I received in the mail today from the United States Department of Commerce, U. S. Census Bureau: 2007 Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons.

I know some of you all must have a small business or are self-employed so....

1. Have any of you received this survey?
2. 2007???
3. If you have did you fill it out and return it?
4. If you didn't return it have you had any repercussions?

It says I (we) have 30 days to respond.

and

"YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW, Title 13," (interesting number) "United States Code, requires businesses and other organizations that receive this questionnaire to answer the questions and return the report to the U.S. Census Bureau."
Goes on about CONFIDENTIAL blah blah..............

All/most (the ones I have looked at, the things is 8 pages long) start with: In 2007 did.......

Sample questions:

1. In 2007, did another company or organization own more than 50% of this business?

9. In 2007, was this business jointly owned by a husband and wife?
Four parts to this question a. b. c. d.

19. Was Owner 1 born in the United States?

21. What is the Owners Race?

67. In 2007, did this business operate from somebody's home?

70. In 2007, were any of the following sources used to finance expansion or capital improvement(s) for this business?

75. In 2007, in which language(s) did this business conduct transactions with customers in?

You get the drift I'm sure. There are a total of 8 pages, 82 questions.

I REALLY would like to burn this thing but I probably will answer the questions I think are pertinent (That I think I am obligated to). You should also know my wife is the sole owner of this business and I don't want to cause her undue stress.

Waddayathink?

Papa
 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 09:54:47 pm by papabug »
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"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
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Klapton

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 10:10:21 pm »

"Dear Bureaucrat,

Since my response is required by law, I am responding.

My response is...

NONE OF YOUR GOD DAMNED BUSINESS.

Sincerely,

Someone who thought he lived in a FREE COUNTRY."
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Who...me?

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 10:13:21 pm »

"Dear Bureaucrat,

Since my response is required by law, I am responding.

My response is...

NONE OF YOUR GOD DAMNED BUSINESS.

Sincerely,

Someone who thought he lived in a FREE COUNTRY."




 :sign10: +1 for sure.
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"Build a politician a fire, and he will be warm for a day.
Set a politician on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

"Reminds me of the lady being asked by the cop investigating an attempted burglary of her house why she shot the intruder six times. She said, When I pulled the trigger the seventh time, it only went click"

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papabug

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 10:50:15 am »

Thanks Klapton not quite the answer I was looking for. I would REALLY like to hand deliver it to em directly where the sun done sine but....
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"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    - Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."
    - Yogi Berra

"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
    - Bumper Sticker-

mountainsmith

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 11:15:18 am »

I haven't received such a survey. It is my understanding that the census takers really only have the right to determine how many persons live in your home. But since the government doesn't obey their own laws and certainly don't represent us citizens, I'm not sure if they have any authority to ask us anything.  I wouldn't answer any other questions if I were given such a survey.
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Who...me?

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 11:25:25 am »

§ 224. Failure to answer questions affecting companies, businesses, religious bodies, and other organizations; false answers

Whoever, being the owner, official, agent, person in charge, or assistant to the person in charge, of any company, business, institution, establishment, religious body, or organization of any nature whatsoever, neglects or refuses, when requested by the Secretary or other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, to answer completely and correctly to the best of his knowledge all questions relating to his company, business, institution, establishment, religious body, or other organization, or to records or statistics in his official custody, contained on any census or other schedule or questionnaire prepared and submitted to him under the authority of this title, shall be fined not more than $500; and if he willfully gives a false answer to any such question, he shall be fined not more than $10,000.

Seem like the worst they could do if you "lost" the questionnaire is fine you up to 500 bucks. This probably is a "per occurrence" type of thing. So if you didn't return it and someone showed up and wanted to ask you questions and you refused they may be able to fine you again.
Also if a smart assed comment was written on the form and returned it could be construed as a false answer thus earning 10k in fines.
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"Build a politician a fire, and he will be warm for a day.
Set a politician on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

"Reminds me of the lady being asked by the cop investigating an attempted burglary of her house why she shot the intruder six times. She said, When I pulled the trigger the seventh time, it only went click"

If you are in a fair fight...your tactics suck.

hangman

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 11:42:55 am »

I've never gotten one in 30 years in business. I'd probably file 13 it if I did get one. I can't figure out what that has to do with an enumeration. I suppose they're just real snoops.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 11:44:37 am by hangman »
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iloilo

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 11:49:52 am »

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Someone I know very well received on of these, and was highly amused while filling it out, finding entertaining and creative responses to the invasive, snoopy, stupid questions, and enjoying the process of creating a work of art of the fantasy genre.

There are just so many lovely languages in which to do business, for instance...
The pen can also be employed as a tool of fantasy. 
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
ff
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Who...me?

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 12:10:50 pm »

I haven't received such a survey. It is my understanding that the census takers really only have the right to determine how many persons live in your home. But since the government doesn't obey their own laws and certainly don't represent us citizens, I'm not sure if they have any authority to ask us anything.  I wouldn't answer any other questions if I were given such a survey.

§ 141. Population and other census information
(a) The Secretary shall, in the year 1980 and every 10 years thereafter, take a decennial census of population as of the first day of April of such year, which date shall be known as the “decennial census date”, in such form and content as he may determine, including the use of sampling procedures and special surveys. In connection with any such census, the Secretary is authorized to obtain such other census information as necessary.

§ 101. Defective, dependent, and delinquent classes; crime
(a) The Secretary may collect decennially statistics relating—
 (1) to the defective, dependent, and delinquent classes; and
 (2) to crime, including judicial statistics pertaining thereto.

(b) The statistics authorized by subsection (a) of this section shall include information upon the following questions, namely: age, sex, color, nativity, parentage, literacy by race, color, nativity, and parentage, and such other questions relating to such subjects as the Secretary deems proper.

(c) In addition to the decennial collections authorized by subsections (a) and (b) of this section, the Secretary may compile and publish annually statistics relating to crime and to the defective, dependent, and delinquent classes.

emphasis mine

So they can ask whatever the secretary decides he wants to know.


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"Build a politician a fire, and he will be warm for a day.
Set a politician on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

"Reminds me of the lady being asked by the cop investigating an attempted burglary of her house why she shot the intruder six times. She said, When I pulled the trigger the seventh time, it only went click"

If you are in a fair fight...your tactics suck.

papabug

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 01:23:35 am »


hangman:
"I've never gotten one in 30 years in business."


The info in the packet states:

"Your 2007 survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (SBO) questionnaire, form SBO-1, is enclosed."

"The 2007 survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons is part of the Economic Census, which is taken every 5 years. The SBO provides the gestapo errrrrr government and businesses with essential data on the demographic and economic composition of business in the United States."

I see we where fortunate enough to be "chosen at random" COUGH.


Who....me?:
Thanks for posting all the regs. It is all included in my government (PAPERS PLEASE) document. Didn't know if anyone was interested in reading it.

N-Eway thanks for your input

PaPa
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"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    - Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."
    - Yogi Berra

"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
    - Bumper Sticker-

macman2k

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2009, 10:21:40 am »

I got one of these, ignored it.  Then they sent me a reminder... but I couldn't find the original packet... then they sent me a new packet. 

Something about the 5th amendment, they are not allowed to force you to provide any information that *could* be used against you or anyone else.  Considering answering some of these questions is being used against you (by helping your competition) I would suggest that you respond accordingly.

Me, I just reported that I ended operations and the online form didn't require me to answer any more questions.

I highly recommend that everyone AVOID incorporating.  You do not need a "government created entity" to do business.  Who knows what kind of "rights" you "gave away by consent" when you filled out your incorporation forms. 
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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2009, 10:52:19 am »

Quote
Something about the 5th amendment, they are not allowed to force you to provide any information that *could* be used against you or anyone else.  Considering answering some of these questions is being used against you (by helping your competition) I would suggest that you respond accordingly.


Assuming, of course, THEY abide by the constitution at all. Which they don't.
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"Build a politician a fire, and he will be warm for a day.
Set a politician on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

"Reminds me of the lady being asked by the cop investigating an attempted burglary of her house why she shot the intruder six times. She said, When I pulled the trigger the seventh time, it only went click"

If you are in a fair fight...your tactics suck.

macman2k

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2009, 11:39:33 am »

Quote
Something about the 5th amendment, they are not allowed to force you to provide any information that *could* be used against you or anyone else.  Considering answering some of these questions is being used against you (by helping your competition) I would suggest that you respond accordingly.


Assuming, of course, THEY abide by the constitution at all. Which they don't.
You are correct the constitution means very little in practice and I only mentioned it because it would be one of the first legal arguments I would make (using their rules against them). 

Unfortunately, they probably wouldn't let the 5th amendment fly just like they don't allow you to use it for the income tax.   So resisting this "survey" is identical to resisting "taxes".   If you want their benefits (limited liability, enforcement of contracts, etc) then you must pay their prices (taxes, surveys, regulations).   If you want freedom, then you must move to the black market where neither taxes, nor regulations, nor surveys can pester you.   Be prepared to fight if they every attempt to come after you.  Otherwise, we must sacrifice our freedom for security from our government.


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mountainsmith

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2009, 04:09:33 pm »

No, the criminals who operate the government don't obey the law. They only follow their own regulations when it is to their advantage to do so. I choose not to abide by any governments regulations that I intemperate as a violation of my rights. I also know that my name is on a blacklist and that my beliefs have put my life in danger. I made the proverbial line in the sand, and it was crossed. Everyone has to make the personal decision, how much they are willing to put up with. 
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papabug

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Re: Survey of Business Owners and Self-Employed Persons (a question)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2009, 05:30:21 pm »

macman2k:
"If you want their benefits (limited liability, enforcement of contracts, etc) then you must pay their prices (taxes, surveys, regulations)."



We are not incorporated,
I think we will answer the ones we think are pertinent  and skip the others send it in and see what happens. Unless you all want to "DONATE" to the "Papabug Defense League." It's a new LLC I'm starting,,,,,

Thanks for ALL your comments, all are welcome,
 
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"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    - Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."
    - Yogi Berra

"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
    - Bumper Sticker-
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